Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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So I have absolutely zero data to back this up, but I think Corrosive Salazzle might have some sauce if used properly and supported correctly in team building. Hear me out here, being able to force progress on literally any Corviknight set along with Heatran, Glowking and the Rarer Toxapex, as well as forcing Ghold out (or forcing it to tera) is genuinely nice. It also absorbs toxic spikes if you don't run a boots spinner, corv, or treads. It's definitely extremely niche, and also very poor otherwise, but I think there might be something there.
 
So I have absolutely zero data to back this up, but I think Corrosive Salazzle might have some sauce if used properly and supported correctly in team building. Hear me out here, being able to force progress on literally any Corviknight set along with Heatran, Glowking and the Rarer Toxapex, as well as forcing Ghold out (or forcing it to tera) is genuinely nice. It also absorbs toxic spikes if you don't run a boots spinner, corv, or treads. It's definitely extremely niche, and also very poor otherwise, but I think there might be something there.

Unfortunately, Gholdengo, is, as always, Good As Gold, and immune to status moves.

Every. Single. One.
(which is something that I feel gets forgotten in Gholdengo discussion; it's happened twice now this forum)

Excepting Mold Breaker and Mycelium Mold'd moves, Gholdengo is simply better and will switch in every single time (although flamethrower would smack it silly)
 
So I have absolutely zero data to back this up, but I think Corrosive Salazzle might have some sauce if used properly and supported correctly in team building. Hear me out here, being able to force progress on literally any Corviknight set along with Heatran, Glowking and the Rarer Toxapex, as well as forcing Ghold out (or forcing it to tera) is genuinely nice. It also absorbs toxic spikes if you don't run a boots spinner, corv, or treads. It's definitely extremely niche, and also very poor otherwise, but I think there might be something there.
While I doubt this is enough to move the needle (Salazzle takes way too much even on resisted damage), it is funny to me how Salazzle is exactly 1 Base Speed faster than Valiant if you wanted to get Cheeky with a Scarf or something. That said I don't know how many teams are that antsy for a way to make progress on that set of threats in one slot, compared to several attackers that can just hit them SE for more immediate threat of removal.

Unfortunately, Gholdengo, is, as always, Good As Gold, and immune to status moves.

Every. Single. One.
(which is something that I feel gets forgotten in Gholdengo discussion; it's happened twice now this forum)

Excepting Mold Breaker and Mycelium Mold'd moves, Gholdengo is simply better and will switch in every single time (although flamethrower would smack it silly)
I assume they meant scaring Gholdengo out or forcing it into Tera with Fire STAB, since it's phrased differently from the previous 3 who it NEEDS to be Toxic to force progress on.
 
Zamazenta is a great example of a traditionally OP pokemon for OU standards that actually works well in adding value to OU
  • it handidly checks lots of fast things and acts as great speed control against offense. In return it’s easy to find a long list of pokemon that can check it in any structure from HO to BO to the slowest of stall
  • When Zamazenta chooses to tech a specific Tera and or moveset adjustment to break past a check, it loses its ability to bypass other checks. Thus it wins games with the “Kartana carefully whittling down checks” method rather than the “chi yu OHKOs blissey” method like the popular meme exemplified.


  • You can naturally find options to deal with zamazenta from building a balanced and stable team. You tend to get completely dominated by it only when your team isn’t a typical diverse team.

Roaring moon isn’t a good example of a traditionally OP pokemon for OU standards that actually works well in adding value to OU
  • whilst there are ways to find checks to it, a well positioned turn for a boost, and then “1 free turn” from a Tera, combined with STAB knock off on choice sets forces people to reliably deal with it using strong priority users, techs like airballoon on steel types, or the slowest of stall. Roaring moons best set is a “one and done” set, that uses booster energy, this does not incentivise it to add value by checking other teams outside of this one time use.

  • When a roaring moon bypasses its checks, only priority is left as a way to deal with it. This is because there are no common scarfers that our speed it with strong utility outside of their ability to revenge roaring moon.
  • It’s knock off sets force progress in ways that go past what constitutes being “simply broken”, that is, the simplest form of broken is Chi Yu being able to OHKO blissey. Roaring moon is closer to the Chi Yu in the Kartana / chi Yu meme than the Kartana


  • You need to find 1-2 options to deal with roaring moon for every pokemon you have that gives it a set up opportunity. You need to hope they work.
 
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I assume they meant scaring Gholdengo out or forcing it into Tera with Fire STAB, since it's phrased differently from the previous 3 who it NEEDS to be Toxic to force progress on.
This is correct. I've pivoted through ghold into heatran before just to avoid heatran taking an extra turn of toxic damage. If heatran didn't have flash fire I wouldn't bother but GaG forcing a fire move makes that play work and worth.

Low ladder scrub btw I've just encountered some salazzles and sometimes they give me a bit of trouble if my initial positioning is just bad
 
So I have absolutely zero data to back this up, but I think Corrosive Salazzle might have some sauce if used properly and supported correctly in team building. Hear me out here, being able to force progress on literally any Corviknight set along with Heatran, Glowking and the Rarer Toxapex, as well as forcing Ghold out (or forcing it to tera) is genuinely nice. It also absorbs toxic spikes if you don't run a boots spinner, corv, or treads. It's definitely extremely niche, and also very poor otherwise, but I think there might be something there.
I think that's such a fun set tbh, against slower threats it can be very annoying. Going full stall with SubProtect, Toxic and maybe Encore is amazing if you know what you're doing and the opponent doesn't. However, I doubt that it is any good in the higher ladder, as soon as you see Salazzle you know what's cooking. I saw a similar idea with Corrosion Glimmora once and that was annoying and frustrating as hell
 
I think that's such a fun set tbh, against slower threats it can be very annoying. Going full stall with SubProtect, Toxic and maybe Encore is amazing if you know what you're doing and the opponent doesn't. However, I doubt that it is any good in the higher ladder, as soon as you see Salazzle you know what's cooking. I saw a similar idea with Corrosion Glimmora once and that was annoying and frustrating as hell
1701290485964.png
 

viivian

no longer the real corviknight
is a Pre-Contributor
So I have absolutely zero data to back this up, but I think Corrosive Salazzle might have some sauce if used properly and supported correctly in team building. Hear me out here, being able to force progress on literally any Corviknight set along with Heatran, Glowking and the Rarer Toxapex, as well as forcing Ghold out (or forcing it to tera) is genuinely nice. It also absorbs toxic spikes if you don't run a boots spinner, corv, or treads. It's definitely extremely niche, and also very poor otherwise, but I think there might be something there.
it matches too poorly into every relevant playstyle to be worth using in OU, i wouldnt even consider it for a spot on the VR. maybe morkoal could find a niche for this thing but that man could also cook with a level 9 rookidee. shame since salazzle has such an interesting array of tools for disruption but it just does not have the statline or typing to make proper use of them
 
Relax guys, gamefreak is making a third paid postgame because they forgot to put tangrowth in the second one, they got our backs(or because they aren’t fleshing out the paradox storyline enough)
So I have absolutely zero data to back this up, but I think Corrosive Salazzle might have some sauce if used properly and supported correctly in team building. Hear me out here, being able to force progress on literally any Corviknight set along with Heatran, Glowking and the Rarer Toxapex, as well as forcing Ghold out (or forcing it to tera) is genuinely nice. It also absorbs toxic spikes if you don't run a boots spinner, corv, or treads. It's definitely extremely niche, and also very poor otherwise, but I think there might be something there.
nah, salazzle is actively ruining the nu tier and im grateful its espeon levels of “bulk” keep it from having the slightest bit of viability outside of the qwilfish tier
 
I don’t like heatran..
For avoid a one liner I prefer guidez hisui for his better typing and being not weak to water threat

F Heatran because he make iron moth balanced
Do you mean Hisuian Goodra? Because Heatran is better in basically every way lmao. Fire/Steel is an excellent defensive typing if you know what you're doing, and it can also do illegal things with the right spread like surviving an opposing heatran's earth power. Magma Storm EP Willo Taunt is the best moveset I've used in my experience.
 
Do you mean Hisuian Goodra? Because Heatran is better in basically every way lmao. Fire/Steel is an excellent defensive typing if you know what you're doing, and it can also do illegal things with the right spread like surviving an opposing heatran's earth power. Magma Storm EP Willo Taunt is the best moveset I've used in my experience.
Heatran doesn’t check Wogre and Zapdos. Also Hoodra hits surprisingly hard, Glowking gets 2HKOd by EQ, Tusk and other physical walls get trucked by Draco, meanwhile very few things can actually one-shot it due to its bulk and typing. Also with Mola and Clef in the tier to provide wish support, it def has a niche in the tier. Though yes, Tran is obviously the better mon.
 
Heatran doesn’t check Wogre and Zapdos. Also Hoodra hits surprisingly hard, Glowking gets 2HKOd by EQ, Tusk and other physical walls get trucked by Draco, meanwhile very few things can actually one-shot it due to its bulk and typing. Also with Mola and Clef in the tier to provide wish support, it def has a niche in the tier. Though yes, Tran is obviously the better mon.
I'm using hoodra as the worst ogerpon check of all time, and you always run it alongside something like tran. Heatran actually does check zapdos decently with bulk investment (provided magma storm hits lmao). The best set for the purposes of sitting on ogerpon is curse defensive tho bc they can break through with an SD otherwise



Unrelated but replays are down and I really wanted to share this sequence that made me feel like a fucking genius but in reality it was just a 1300s player:
1701310495045.png
 
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So here's a couple of mons I've been seeing gaining some more usage on the ladder lately:

Likely to rise
  • :garganacl: - Garg just doing its typical Garg stuff, it's becoming very popular in Balance and BO teams and it still relies quite a lot on Tera, although it's a very good commitment as one of the best abusers of the mechanic.
  • :tornadus-therian: - It runs mainly three sets: Fast Utility-Pivot with 4 attacks (Hurricane/Bleakwind Storm, Heatwave, Knock Off, U-turn) or 3 attacks + Taunt, both running HDB; Fast Special Sweeper with NP, 3 attacks (Hurricane, Focus Blast and Weather Ball/Tera Blast) and HDB, very popular in Rain teams; classic AV set with 4 attacks.
The fact we are in a meta where Tornadus-T has a possibility of being a tier higher than Landorus-T and Toxapex both is wild. I do think a Torn-T rise is coming finally, as it got somewhat close the last few months and Tornadus-T is finally a tier staple again.

UU is gonna be in for a rude awakening though if they lose :Tornadus-Therian:, as it is currently the best pokemon down there and has been S rank there since even before it got knock off back

Can't wait for r/Stunfisk to go wild with memes if Tornadus-T rises and Landorus-T falls though
 
The fact we are in a meta where Tornadus-T has a possibility of being a tier higher than Landorus-T and Toxapex both is wild. I do think a Torn-T rise is coming finally, as it got somewhat close the last few months and Tornadus-T is finally a tier staple again.

UU is gonna be in for a rude awakening though if they lose :Tornadus-Therian:, as it is currently the best pokemon down there and has been S rank there since even before it got knock off back

Can't wait for r/Stunfisk to go wild with memes if Tornadus-T rises and Landorus-T falls though
To be fair, gen 5 had Tornadus-Therian banned to Ubers.

Torn is definitely slept on though. Aside from the fact it has to rely on some of the worst moves of all time (hurricane and bleakwind), it is a really menacing progress forcer; not much wants to take a strong hurricane and does not mind getting knocked (also helps that hazards are incredibly strong right now).

Despite this, my issue with Torn is when I nasty plot and miss the subsequent hurricane for sure. Flat out self-sabotages at times.
 
Well, only two weeks left to DLC2, as I said time really flies fast, I wonder now which Pokémon are people gonna say that are broken and if Kingambit/Gholdengo or both are gonna banned and the same will happen to Tera or all of them will stay legal, and also curious to see if the rumors of the Tapus coming back are true or just theories, as for the Ultra-Beasts.
 
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When are replays coming back I don't wanna download html files every time I have a sick game to show my friend. On a different note, Physically Defensive H-Goodra goes hard as fuck honestly.
Goodra-Hisui @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Def / 104 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Curse
- Body Press
- Draco Meteor
- Heavy Slam
I'm in the low 1500s again after using this thing on a team built around it and it's really fucking nice. Sits on ogerpons, fucks up rillabooms, either dies to or kills enamori, and isn't afraid of kingambit at ALL. This set is amazing.
 
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Well, only two weeks left to DLC2, as I said time really flies fast, I wonder now which Pokémon are people gonna say that are broken and if Kingambit/Gholdengo or both are gonna banned and the same will banned to Tera or all of them will stay legal, and also curious to see if the rumors of the Tapus coming back are true or just theories, as for the Ultra-Beasts.
Also, when there is a paradox form, there is the "base pokemon" in the game (examples: Tusk and Donphan, Volc and Iron Moth), except for Walking Wake and Iron Leaves, so it's almost sure that Suicune, Raiku (and Entei)will be back, same for Virizion, Cobaltion (and Terrakion and Keldeo).

However, I think that these mons wouldn't be really good in ou, even if Suicune, Terrakion, Cobaltion and maybe Keldeo could have a (maybe small) niche.

About the Tapu, yeah they could be great if they're back, except Bulu but he could still have a niche

About the ultra beasts, they could be awesome with tera, perhaps too much, but they aren't confirmed.
I'm especially afraid about Kartana and Blacephalon. (Off course Pheromosa and Naganadel would be uber, except if there is a big nerf)

We'll see which mon will be here in two weeks.
 
Also, when there is a paradox form, there is the "base pokemon" in the game (examples: Tusk and Donphan, Volc and Iron Moth), except for Walking Wake and Iron Leaves, so it's almost sure that Suicune, Raiku (and Entei)will be back, same for Virizion, Cobaltion (and Terrakion and Keldeo).

However, I think that these mons wouldn't be really good in ou, even if Suicune, Terrakion, Cobaltion and maybe Keldeo could have a (maybe small) niche.

About the Tapu, yeah they could be great if they're back, except Bulu but he could still have a niche

About the ultra beasts, they could be awesome with tera, perhaps too much, but they aren't confirmed.
I'm especially afraid about Kartana and Blacephalon. (Off course Pheromosa and Naganadel would be uber, except if there is a big nerf)

We'll see which mon will be here in two weeks.
PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE HOODRA STAYS WINNING WE SIT ON KART ALL DAY LONG.

Do not ask me about sacred sword that is not my problem.

anyway we need to let pheromosa in the tier for like a week because that means a reverend video. fuck the tier i need the funny bird man to upload again
 
Well, only two weeks left to DLC2, as I said time really flies fast, I wonder now which Pokémon are people gonna say that are broken and if Kingambit/Gholdengo or both are gonna banned and the same will banned to Tera or all of them will stay legal, and also curious to see if the rumors of the Tapus coming back are true or just theories, as for the Ultra-Beasts.
According to Khu and that datamined static Legendary encounter list, the Tapus and UBs aren't returning
 
Can’t wait for landorus to drop comically the month as poor gliscor got 1 month probation just like how garchump fell to uu after getting scale shot
Although it's not a finalized list
thank the almighty amongst the clouds himself, tapu lele needs to come back simply so psyspam in both vgc and smogon is given a better setter and abuser, indeedee and armourouge are scum
 
Can’t wait for landorus to drop comically the month as poor gliscor got 1 month probation just like how garchump fell to uu after getting scale shot

thank the almighty amongst the clouds himself, tapu lele needs to come back simply so psyspam in both vgc and smogon is given a better setter and abuser, indeedee and armourouge are scum
tapu fini would be a part of OU that's for sure

tapu koko would probably be qb'd hour 1

tapu bulu BL real

tapu lele would be banned week 1 no shot it stays longer

that being said I want tapu lele to get aura sphere to really fuck over the chess piece
 
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